[HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service experiment

Sun Mar 8 20:48:07 PDT 2015

Before I vote, I'd like to learn more about our cashflows to ensure that
the necessary credit could be promptly paid down.  How much in donations
was received last month, and how much in donations was received in February
and March of 2014? I don't want to spend more on this than we earn in a
quarter.

On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Nigel Vander Houwen <nigel at nigelvh.com>
wrote:

> I agree with getting a long term antenna and one that continues our
> sectorized plan. YAY.
>
> Nigel
>
> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:30, Bart Kus <me at bartk.us> wrote:
>
>  I didn't go, nor would I trust HamWAN money to sketchy antennas.
>
> I purchased the 3 modems recently approved (1 replacement 5GHz and the 2
> 900MHz modems) and saved money by combining shipping.  There is $118.12
> left in approved funds to get a 900MHz antenna solution.  Baltic is asking
> for *$204.59 to make the OD9-8 antenna happen* (shipping included).
> Laird's lower gain antennas also have crazy high shipping costs, and they
> quickly approach isotropic gain.  I don't think it's a good idea to spend
> $125 on shipping for what was supposed to be a low cost / low performance
> test antenna.  Longer-term, we would very likely employ a cross polarized
> MIMO system since bandwidth @ 900MHz is very limited and it's therefore
> important to maximize bit/Hz.  There is only one antenna on the market that
> I'm aware of that fits the bill: Ubiquiti AM-9M13.  It's a 13dBi 120 degree
> dual polarity sector.  I'm pretty sure they add the dBi from H+V
> polarizations to arrive at 13dBi, so it's probably 10dBi / polarization.
> Still, 2dB better than the 8dBi OD9-8.  This antenna is physically smaller,
> so the shipping is much cheaper.  *It costs $278.36 shipped*.  We'll also
> need a pigtail cable to adapt from the RP-SMA terminals on the antenna to
> the N-male on the modem.
>
> Now, there are a couple advantages to going this route:
>
> 1) We can re-use this antenna if we do deploy a 900MHz service since it's
> the only one I'm aware of that fits the bill.
> 2) The experimental phase can test both vertical and horizontal polarity
> performance independently by simply switching a cable.
>
> So here's the modification:
>
> 1x Credit from removing OD9-8 = ($118.12)
> 1x Ubiquiti AM-9M13 @ $252.00/ea = $252.00
> 1x RP-SMA to N patch cable (1m) @ $9.95/ea = $9.95
> 1x NF-NF barrel adapter @ $4.25/ea = $4.25
> 1x Shipping @ $36.60 = $36.60
>
> *Total additional funds requested: **$184.68*
>
> If we don't end up doing a 900MHz service, or it doesn't use these
> components, we'll return or eBay the parts and credit the HamWAN balance.
>
> --Bart
>
>
>
> On 3/6/2015 7:59 PM, Tom Hayward wrote:
>
> Try the swap meet tomorrow?
> On Mar 6, 2015 7:55 PM, "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us> wrote:
>
>>  Turns out the shipping on that 8dBi vertical is $125.
>>
>> I'm open to suggestions at this point.
>>
>> --Bart
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2015 11:23 AM, Bart Kus wrote:
>>
>> I just sent you all the relevant invoices.
>>
>> Thanks, board!  I guess I'm placing all the orders now.
>>
>> --Bart
>>
>>
>> On 3/6/2015 11:19 AM, Cory (NQ1E) wrote:
>>
>> Bart,
>>
>>  I also vote YAY on the contingency that you get caught up on the
>> paperwork.  I still don't have the invoices on file from your last two
>> purchases. ;)
>>
>>  That makes it unanimous, so I guess the voting is complete.
>>
>>  -Cory
>> NQ1E
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Ryan Elliott Turner <ryan.e.t at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Bart. I vote yay.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:47 PM, gary.k7ek at yahoo.com <
>>> gary.k7ek at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  I'd be interested in experimenting with 900 mhz gear at my Spanaway
>>>> residence, and possibly at my Graham Hill repeater site. I believe 900 mhz
>>>> would provide better overall results than 5 Ghz, which proved to be
>>>> marginal to barely usable during our recent site survey.
>>>>
>>>>  Best regards,
>>>>
>>>>  Gary, K7EK
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>
>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>> From: "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us>
>>>> To: "Puget Sound Data Ring" <psdr at hamwan.org>
>>>> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service experiment
>>>> Date: Fri, Mar 6, 2015 10:38
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> 5.9GHz is awesome when it works.  The speeds are great, and it carries
>>>> as far as the eye can see with very low ambient noise floor.  It does
>>>> however have problems when it needs to penetrate trees and buildings.
>>>> To alleviate this, I'd like HamWAN to offer a slower but deeper
>>>> penetrating 900MHz service.  900MHz is the lowest frequency ham band
>>>> without bandwidth or modulation rate restrictions.  Before we deploy a
>>>> full cell site, I'd like to get some real-world experience with 900MHz
>>>> penetration, propagation and ambient noise conditions.  Here's the
>>>> cheapest appropriate hardware we can use for this:
>>>>
>>>> 1x Vpol omni antenna @ $79.50/ea = $79.50
>>>> (http://www.balticnetworks.com/laird-antenna-omni-8dbi-900mhz-n-female-integrated.html)
>>>> 2x 9HPn modem @ $108.00/ea = $216.00
>>>> (http://www.balticnetworks.com/mikrotik-metal-9hpn.html)
>>>> 1x Shipping @ $UNKNOWN (quote not showing?!  Need to call them.) =
>>>> $40.00 ???
>>>>
>>>> Total: $335.50
>>>>
>>>> I already have a 900MHz high gain Yagi-Uda in my inventory and can use
>>>> that to do various field tests.  These can be directly compared against
>>>> 5.9GHz performance since the gear will be deployed to one of our
>>>> existing 5.9GHz cell sites.  The results of such comparisons will give
>>>> us a good idea of how well 900MHz might do for HamWAN.
>>>>
>>>> Disclaimer: These may not be the right modems or antennas for us
>>>> long-term.  A real deployment might use Ubiquiti Rocket M900 with their
>>>> sector antennas.  These Ubiquiti items are far more expensive though,
>>>> and their software doesn't integrate as easily into our network, so for
>>>> the purposes of the test I believe the set of hardware I proposed will
>>>> do well at deploying fast and keeping costs down.
>>>>
>>>> NOTE: If both the votes are approved, I will combine shipping from
>>>> Baltic to save money.
>>>>
>>>> --Bart
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>>
>>> Ryan Turner
>>>
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>>
>>
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-- 

Ryan Turner
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