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<div>Hamwan works great for me @ 24 mile trip one way, Issaquah to Haystack. 4mb</div>
<div dir="ltr">See for yourself. This website is hosted across the connection. <a href="http://wf7u.net">
http://wf7u.net</a></div>
<div dir="ltr">I’ll have to try looking for haystack with a telescope, couldn’t see it with binoculars that far away.</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> on behalf of Stephen Kangas <stephen@kangas.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 18, 2023 4:45:35 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nick Kartsioukas <nick@explodinglemur.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Puget Sound Data Ring <psdr@hamwan.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Site details?</font>
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<div dir="auto">Yes, but will it see the sector node antenna 28mi away? Or at least the comm site location over the ground horizon?</div>
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<div dir="auto">On March 18, 2023 12:31:55 PM Nick Kartsioukas <nick@explodinglemur.org> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">Installing a tower just to climb it and peer through a telescope seems...impractical :) I discovered last night while poking around that my quadcopter has a panoramic photo mode where it'll yaw in place and snap pictures and stitch them together.
I can launch it to 30' AGL and then take panoramic shots every 5-10' to see what exactly is visible at each level.</div>
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<div dir="auto">On Mar 17, 2023, at 23:00, Stephen Kangas <stephen@kangas.com> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">I ditto the point that you must see line of sight to connect at this 6GHz connection frequency reliably. Use a telescope if needed. If you have a single tree in the way, not worth investing $$ on the equipment. I had to dodge a single cedar
tree.by mounting my dish on a 6ft mast on the Ridgeline of my house at a single specific location. </div>
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<div dir="auto">IF you're on flat land or a boat on the sea, it's 13mi to rhe Horizon. If the Tx antenna is on a tower above ground it helps extend that distance. If the tower is on a mountain it helps. Same for Rx antenna. But you're talking 28mi, more
than twice that flat distance to the horizon. It's possible, based on relative height AGL on both ends, but if there's no *VISIBLE* LOS, I would not blindly place my money on that craps table number no matter what topo RF software says. The beam width is
so wide at that distance that 30deg variance of the sector node from relative north bearings is not going to make much difference. Borrow a telescope and sight it on a clear day like I did. Which is another matter, as I've seen signal degrade with weather
just a couple miles away from a sector node, imagine 28mi with rain. If you can't see it for the trees, install a tower and repeat the telescope sighting from its top. If you still can't see it, figure out a way for you or the HamWAN folks into installing
another sector node on a hill top closer to you, as everyone wants to expand the network. </div>
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<div dir="auto">Stephen W9SK</div>
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<div dir="auto">On March 17, 2023 5:34:59 PM "Nick Kartsioukas" <nick@explodinglemur.org> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">I can see nothing from my roof. From my original mail, "For example it looks like I "only" need a 35' mast for Baldi, but at 28mi away I'm not sure I can get connected reliably, vs Beacon or Capitol Park which are much closer but I'd need at
least a 66' mast thanks to local terrain and trees." Local terrain and trees are a challenge here which is why I want to gather and simulate as much as I can before I try to do something that a simulation would rule out.</div>
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<div dir="auto">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023, at 22:17, Tom Hayward wrote:</div>
<div dir="auto">I can appreciate the desire to play around with the mapping tools and </div>
<div dir="auto">coverage models. I have done a lot of that myself.</div>
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<div dir="auto">We've found that the most reliable predictor of coverage, aside from an </div>
<div dir="auto">RF survey, is a pair of binoculars. Can you see the tower while </div>
<div dir="auto">standing on your roof? </div>
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<div dir="auto">Tom KD7LXL </div>
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<div dir="auto">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023, 21:17 Nick Kartsioukas <nick@explodinglemur.org> wrote:</div>
<div dir="auto">Because I enjoy playing around with radio coverage mapping tools and want to have the closest representation of reality?</div>
<div dir="auto">I'm in an exceptionally non-optimal area for PSDR, so I want to have as much information as I can about required mast height and link budget for each site before I go actually installing anything.</div>
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<div dir="auto">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023, at 15:45, Stephen Kangas wrote:</div>
<div dir="auto">Nick, I'm not certain why precision matters here. My experience </div>
<div dir="auto">working with Bart & Doug assisting them putting up the Rattlesnake Mtn </div>
<div dir="auto">sector is that they may deviate from the exact bearing only to provide </div>
<div dir="auto">better coverage to the area below, avoiding obstacles and focusing on </div>
<div dir="auto">the user community. We're not talking really narrow beams here. You </div>
<div dir="auto">should be able to expect that if there is a sector antenna pointed to </div>
<div dir="auto">your area that it is optimized for your chances of connection </div>
<div dir="auto">regardless of how precise the sector antennas matches 0deg N bearing </div>
<div dir="auto">offsets.</div>
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<div dir="auto">FWIW, Stephen W9SK</div>
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<div dir="auto">-----Original Message-----</div>
<div dir="auto">From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Carl Leon</div>
<div dir="auto">Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 3:16 PM</div>
<div dir="auto">To: 'Puget Sound Data Ring' <psdr@hamwan.org></div>
<div dir="auto">Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Site details?</div>
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<div dir="auto">Those are the standard. I think there is one single sector site where </div>
<div dir="auto">that varies, but am not certain.</div>
<div dir="auto">Carl, N7KUW</div>
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<div dir="auto">-----Original Message-----</div>
<div dir="auto">From: PSDR <psdr-bounces@hamwan.org> On Behalf Of Nick Kartsioukas</div>
<div dir="auto">Sent: Thursday, March 16, 2023 9:51 AM</div>
<div dir="auto">To: psdr@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Site details?</div>
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<div dir="auto">Sorry, I phrased that part poorly. Are all sectors aligned at </div>
<div dir="auto">0/120/240 when present, or do they deviate from those bearings?</div>
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<div dir="auto">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023, at 08:26, Doug Kingston wrote:</div>
<div dir="auto">Not all the cell sites have every sector. If a cell site is on the </div>
<div dir="auto">side of a hill or has a large obstruction immediately adjacent, we </div>
<div dir="auto">omit the sector facing into the obstruction as it would not serve any </div>
<div dir="auto">useful purpose.</div>
<div dir="auto">We have tried to depict the available sector in the map on the </div>
<div dir="auto">website, but you may need to zoom in to see that detail. If you have </div>
<div dir="auto">questions about particular sites, Feel free to contact me directly</div>
<div dir="auto">(dpk@randomnotes.org) or mail the netops@ list or ask on our IRC </div>
<div dir="auto">channel.</div>
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<div dir="auto">-Doug-</div>
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<div dir="auto">On Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 9:15 PM Nick Kartsioukas </div>
<div dir="auto"><nick@explodinglemur.org> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="auto">I've been able to find location info for most of the PSDR sites and antenna height info for some of them. Do they all have sectors pointing 0/120/240 degrees relative to north? Is there anywhere that has EIRP info? I'm trying to see how tall
a mast I need to get connected, and whether or not I can even make link for some of the sites. For example it looks like I "only" need a 35' mast for Baldi, but at 28mi away I'm not sure I can get connected reliably, vs Beacon or Capitol Park which are much
closer but I'd need at least a 66' mast thanks to local terrain and trees.</div>
<div dir="auto">At the moment I'm using https://ispdesign.ui.com/ (which now has LIDAR data for buildings/trees!) and have also used RadioMobile Deluxe in the past.</div>
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<div dir="auto">Thanks!</div>
<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
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<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
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<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
</blockquote>
<div dir="auto">_______________________________________________</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR mailing list</div>
<div dir="auto">PSDR@hamwan.org</div>
<div dir="auto">https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr</div>
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