[HamWAN PSDR] system usage

Wed Feb 13 22:32:27 PST 2013

But we can order pizza on our amateur radios.   I wouldn't go  much farther 
then that though.

Daniel Stevens KL7WM  

In a message dated 2/13/2013 7:57:32 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
rob at quailsoftltd.net writes:

Short answer – I did read the  mission <g>.   
In this instance I had no  knowledge of Seattle vs NW Mesh and looked up 
the wrong  one. 
There are will still be the  need to make ongoing distinctions though, and 
your long answer even can create  some situations where the line would be 
blurred.   As an example –  using hamWAN as an Internet survival backup for 
amateur purposes is one thing  – i.e. – during a disaster contacting another 
ham or looking up information on  a website.  Shopping via hamWAN on the 
other hand, crosses the commerce  line – i.e. – you can’t order a pizza on ham 
radio.    
I see this as one of those  ongoing conversations that will probably be 
more of an issue as we get started  than once things “firm up”.   Once we 
start having some demonstrated  amateur  uses it will help illustrate the drawn  
lines. 
Rob 

From:  PSDR [mailto:psdr-bounces at hamwan.org] On Behalf Of Bart  Kus
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 12:06 AM
To: Puget  Sound Data Ring
Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] system  usage

An excellent point to bring up, and one I've struggled with  in the past as 
well.

Short answer: read _Article  0_ 
(https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Constitution&structure=HamWAN#Article_0_Mission)  of the _Constitution_ 
(https://www.hamwan.org/t/tiki-index.php?page=Constitution&structure=HamWAN) 
.   It describes HamWAN's mission.

Longer answer with rationale for  HamWAN's mission:

A useful and vibrant computer network is one that  allows like-minded 
people to communicate together.  In the case of the  Internet, we have the 
ultimate wide deployment across geographical regions and  social groups.  It is 
everywhere and provided to everyone.  From  there, you see communities forming 
around their collective  commonalities.  Topic-specific message boards, 
mailing lists, IRC  channels, web sites/apps, etc.  We cannot hope to compete 
with the speed  of terabit fiber-optics, or the budgets of global ISPs to be 
all things to all  people.

I, however, am a nerd.  And I enjoy the company of my  fellow nerds.  It is 
these nerds that I would like to exchange data  with.  I believe that 
passing a basic amateur radio license exam is a  good filter for the quality of 
nerd that I'd like to see on the network.   Such a requirement also broadens 
the adoption of amateur radio itself in our  society filled with computer 
nerds, who would love to play with digital  networks, but don't have a ham 
license.  This is a good thing.  The  compu-nerds might learn new things in the 
realm of radio along the way.   Voice net check-ins burn at my 
computer-literate soul, and the injection of  computer-savvy nerds into the amateur 
radio hobby will fix these archaic  procedures.  So there you have (part of) the 
rationale for requiring all  participants to be licensed radio amateur 
operators.

I'm also a bit of  an independent.  Why should I put my communications 
needs solely in the  hands of large corporations and the Internet?  Most of my 
communication  is local.  I would be very happy to achieve independence from 
the  corporate teat for at least my local communications needs.  On this 
kind  of independent network, WE define the rules.  Comcast wants to charge  
$200/mo for a 50Mbit downlink feed.  I think we can beat that if we build  it 
ourselves.  And make it symmetrical at the same time, so none of this  
10Mbit uplink limit.  Nerds are not just consumers, they're also  providers of 
data services.  The common Internet services target your  typical mom & pop 
audience, who are dominantly consumers of data.   I'd love to live in a world 
where I can carry around a _ham-phone_ 
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NinjaTel_Van) , my car is a  mobile ham-hotspot, and my house is tied into the 
HamWAN, all at a  significantly lower cost than the for-profit commercial 
offerings, while being  tailored to my nerdy needs.  And there you have some 
rationale for "free  digital communication" as a goal.  I can go on for quite a 
while on this  subject.  :)

I'm also a bit of a survivalist.  I like knowing  exactly how my 
communications facilities work and how to fix them.   Should my Internet or cell 
service go down, I like knowing I have another  completely independent system of 
communication.  The other emergency  communications groups share this 
attitude, and it makes them great partners in  building this network.  These are 
the driving forces behind the emergency  communications part of HamWAN's 
mission.

Did I mention I'm a nerd?  :)  Doing the R&D to bring this type of network 
to life is great  fun.  A long focused effort by a group of nerds will (and 
already has)  produced valuable results.  These need to be published so that 
others may  benefit from our experience in building their own networks of 
this kind.   And there you have mission point #2, about conducting and 
publishing  R&D.

The publication of this knowledge also ties in with point #4,  of educating 
and spreading knowledge.  Point #4 is also supported by  requiring 
participants to pass ham exams.

Lastly, I realize HamWAN will  not be in control of all such like-minded 
networks.  These types of ideas  (both technical and organizational/social) 
can spread like wildfire, and  independent groups are sure to spring up.  When 
groups' networks grow and  start touching each other, I want to be sure 
they are compatible.  For  this reason the last sentence of the mission 
statement is that HamWAN will act  as a coordinator of interoperability.  The 
recent decision to go with  AMPRnet block registration solves a large part of the 
interoperability  problem.  But there are other considerations, such as the 
universal  adoption of the NV2 protocol which would make a roaming ham's 
equipment  compatible with other groups' networks.  We may also have to 
implement an  inter-network registration system for roaming hams.  There are 
analogous  systems in the cellular telco world.  If we develop & establish a  
universal system of digital ham identity at least, that would go a long way  
even if we fail on the protocol adoption front.  Someone suggested using  the 
LoTW client certificate, which is not a bad idea at all.  ARRL  provides a 
rigorous identity verification system in LoTW signup, although I'm  not sure 
how good they are at expiring said certs in a timely manner should  the 
registration lapse or be revoked by the FCC.

Phew!  I'm out of  words.  There's so much work ahead it's scary.  
_Recruiting recruiting  recruiting recruiting_ 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE) !  There's no way I can implement the entirety  of this vision for 
the future alone.

--Bart

On 2/12/2013 9:16  PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote:

Ok….. time for more questions, now that the marathon  meeting is over <g>. 
A number of times I’ve heard potential uses that seem to  blur the line 
between amateur and commercial, so my question is – how do we  draw the line? 
As an example – connecting to the Seattle MeshNet.   As I read it, the 
MeshNet is non-amateur.  Are we looking to be a  generic carrier grade ISP?  If 
so, then this will work, but we won’t be  able to use amateur frequencies to 
do it.  Similar question for  connecting firehalls down south – if we are 
sticking to strictly amateur  uses, then the usage by laptops and other 
devices at a firehall would be  limited to amateur related uses – i.e. – no 
non-hams using  it. 
It may be that I’m just missing a big concept here, but I  see a lot of 
blurring of the lines in conversation, and I think it needs to  be better 
spelled out before we get in front of too many  folks. 
I’ll stop with this one for now, rather than continue to  show my ignorance 
and unfamiliarity <g>. 
Rob 

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