[HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service experiment
Bart Kus
me at bartk.us
Tue Mar 10 11:07:45 PDT 2015
Vote is approved. Placing order.
--Bart
On 3/8/2015 10:26 PM, Bart Kus wrote:
> Looks like we did $143.25 in Jan and $732.95 in Feb. There are
> several non-recurring donations in Feb to help support Tukwila and
> these other projects. It looks like the Jan figure is a good estimate
> of recurring monthly cash flow.
>
> At some point I also need to file a claim with Microsoft to match the
> donations I've been making since we're a 501c3 now. Any other folks
> in a similar position should do the same.
>
> --Bart
>
>
> On 3/8/2015 8:48 PM, Ryan Elliott Turner wrote:
>> Before I vote, I'd like to learn more about our cashflows to ensure
>> that the necessary credit could be promptly paid down. How much in
>> donations was received last month, and how much in donations was
>> received in February and March of 2014? I don't want to spend more on
>> this than we earn in a quarter.
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 8, 2015 at 10:32 PM, Nigel Vander Houwen
>> <nigel at nigelvh.com <mailto:nigel at nigelvh.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with getting a long term antenna and one that continues
>> our sectorized plan. YAY.
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2015, at 12:30, Bart Kus <me at bartk.us
>>> <mailto:me at bartk.us>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I didn't go, nor would I trust HamWAN money to sketchy antennas.
>>>
>>> I purchased the 3 modems recently approved (1 replacement 5GHz
>>> and the 2 900MHz modems) and saved money by combining shipping.
>>> There is $118.12 left in approved funds to get a 900MHz antenna
>>> solution. Baltic is asking for *$204.59 to make the OD9-8
>>> antenna happen* (shipping included). Laird's lower gain
>>> antennas also have crazy high shipping costs, and they quickly
>>> approach isotropic gain. I don't think it's a good idea to
>>> spend $125 on shipping for what was supposed to be a low cost /
>>> low performance test antenna. Longer-term, we would very likely
>>> employ a cross polarized MIMO system since bandwidth @ 900MHz is
>>> very limited and it's therefore important to maximize bit/Hz.
>>> There is only one antenna on the market that I'm aware of that
>>> fits the bill: Ubiquiti AM-9M13. It's a 13dBi 120 degree dual
>>> polarity sector. I'm pretty sure they add the dBi from H+V
>>> polarizations to arrive at 13dBi, so it's probably 10dBi /
>>> polarization. Still, 2dB better than the 8dBi OD9-8. This
>>> antenna is physically smaller, so the shipping is much cheaper.
>>> *It costs $278.36 shipped*. We'll also need a pigtail cable to
>>> adapt from the RP-SMA terminals on the antenna to the N-male on
>>> the modem.
>>>
>>> Now, there are a couple advantages to going this route:
>>>
>>> 1) We can re-use this antenna if we do deploy a 900MHz service
>>> since it's the only one I'm aware of that fits the bill.
>>> 2) The experimental phase can test both vertical and horizontal
>>> polarity performance independently by simply switching a cable.
>>>
>>> So here's the modification:
>>>
>>> 1x Credit from removing OD9-8 = ($118.12)
>>> 1x Ubiquiti AM-9M13 @ $252.00/ea = $252.00
>>> 1x RP-SMA to N patch cable (1m) @ $9.95/ea = $9.95
>>> 1x NF-NF barrel adapter @ $4.25/ea = $4.25
>>> 1x Shipping @ $36.60 = $36.60
>>>
>>> *Total additional funds requested: **$184.68*
>>>
>>> If we don't end up doing a 900MHz service, or it doesn't use
>>> these components, we'll return or eBay the parts and credit the
>>> HamWAN balance.
>>>
>>> --Bart
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 3/6/2015 7:59 PM, Tom Hayward wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Try the swap meet tomorrow?
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 6, 2015 7:55 PM, "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us
>>>> <mailto:me at bartk.us>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Turns out the shipping on that 8dBi vertical is $125.
>>>>
>>>> I'm open to suggestions at this point.
>>>>
>>>> --Bart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 3/6/2015 11:23 AM, Bart Kus wrote:
>>>>> I just sent you all the relevant invoices.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, board! I guess I'm placing all the orders now.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Bart
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/2015 11:19 AM, Cory (NQ1E) wrote:
>>>>>> Bart,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also vote YAY on the contingency that you get caught up
>>>>>> on the paperwork. I still don't have the invoices on
>>>>>> file from your last two purchases. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That makes it unanimous, so I guess the voting is complete.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Cory
>>>>>> NQ1E
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 10:49 AM, Ryan Elliott Turner
>>>>>> <ryan.e.t at gmail.com <mailto:ryan.e.t at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Bart. I vote yay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:47 PM, gary.k7ek at yahoo.com
>>>>>> <mailto:gary.k7ek at yahoo.com> <gary.k7ek at yahoo.com
>>>>>> <mailto:gary.k7ek at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd be interested in experimenting with 900 mhz
>>>>>> gear at my Spanaway residence, and possibly at my
>>>>>> Graham Hill repeater site. I believe 900 mhz
>>>>>> would provide better overall results than 5 Ghz,
>>>>>> which proved to be marginal to barely usable
>>>>>> during our recent site survey.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary, K7EK
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE Smartphone
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>>>> From: "Bart Kus" <me at bartk.us <mailto:me at bartk.us>>
>>>>>> To: "Puget Sound Data Ring" <psdr at hamwan.org
>>>>>> <mailto:psdr at hamwan.org>>
>>>>>> Subject: [HamWAN PSDR] VOTE: 900MHz service
>>>>>> experiment
>>>>>> Date: Fri, Mar 6, 2015 10:38
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5.9GHz is awesome when it works. The speeds are great, and it carries
>>>>>> as far as the eye can see with very low ambient noise floor. It does
>>>>>> however have problems when it needs to penetrate trees and buildings.
>>>>>> To alleviate this, I'd like HamWAN to offer a slower but deeper
>>>>>> penetrating 900MHz service. 900MHz is the lowest frequency ham band
>>>>>> without bandwidth or modulation rate restrictions. Before we deploy a
>>>>>> full cell site, I'd like to get some real-world experience with 900MHz
>>>>>> penetration, propagation and ambient noise conditions. Here's the
>>>>>> cheapest appropriate hardware we can use for this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1x Vpol omni antenna @ $79.50/ea = $79.50
>>>>>> (http://www.balticnetworks.com/laird-antenna-omni-8dbi-900mhz-n-female-integrated.html)
>>>>>> 2x 9HPn modem @ $108.00/ea = $216.00
>>>>>> (http://www.balticnetworks.com/mikrotik-metal-9hpn.html)
>>>>>> 1x Shipping @ $UNKNOWN (quote not showing?! Need to call them.) =
>>>>>> $40.00 ???
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Total: $335.50
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I already have a 900MHz high gain Yagi-Uda in my inventory and can use
>>>>>> that to do various field tests. These can be directly compared against
>>>>>> 5.9GHz performance since the gear will be deployed to one of our
>>>>>> existing 5.9GHz cell sites. The results of such comparisons will give
>>>>>> us a good idea of how well 900MHz might do for HamWAN.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Disclaimer: These may not be the right modems or antennas for us
>>>>>> long-term. A real deployment might use Ubiquiti Rocket M900 with their
>>>>>> sector antennas. These Ubiquiti items are far more expensive though,
>>>>>> and their software doesn't integrate as easily into our network, so for
>>>>>> the purposes of the test I believe the set of hardware I proposed will
>>>>>> do well at deploying fast and keeping costs down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> NOTE: If both the votes are approved, I will combine shipping from
>>>>>> Baltic to save money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Bart
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ryan Turner
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Ryan Turner
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
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