[HamWAN PSDR] Lookout maintenance update

[Dale Skyllingstad]

Yes, we were lucky!  A few years ago we had a similar thing happen at
Bawfaw.  Bart and I made a winter trip to the mountain top to find at
least one PoE injector had water ingress corrosion to the point of
failure.  We did the "strip an inch of jacket at the low point" fix,
crimped on new RJ45s and replaced the injector.  Still operational years
later.  One of these summers, we need to climb the Bawfaw tower and
assess any cat cable damage that allowed the water ingress in the first
place.  Cable dressing at the bottom of the tower could use some work as
well. 

I know a little while back, we talked about testing the Truecable direct
burial CAT5E with water-blocking tape.  If I recall, it was a little too
big to fit in our standard 6mm 10-hole barrel cushions.  Did we decide
against it? 

Dale 

AH6ET

-------- Original message -------- 
From: Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com> 
Date: 10/28/23 9:02 PM (GMT-08:00) 
To: 'Bart Kus' <me at bartk.us>, 'Puget Sound Data Ring' <psdr at hamwan.org> 
Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Lookout maintenance update 

I definitely agree it has benefits as a revised standard to future
installs and/or retrofits.  In this case we didn't have water reach and
wick into the RJ45 terminations, so we were lucky this time.  Might be
something to put on the next visit list. 

Thanks for sharing. 

Rob 

From: Bart Kus <me at bartk.us> 
Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2023 8:55 PM
To: Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com>; 'Puget Sound Data Ring'
<psdr at hamwan.org>
Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Lookout maintenance update 

The key difference is the lack of RJ45 termination on the cable coming
down the tower.  If you don't give the water somewhere to go, it'll go
right into the RJ45 fingers and with PoE on there, it'll corrode and
short/open in no time.  The punchdown blocks let it drip down without
touching any copper.  One can also remove the jacket, and shield, and
plastic film from the cable to let it drip before an RJ45, but I found
that to be cumbersome to do, ugly looking and fragile. 

--Bart 

On 10/28/2023 8:51 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: 

> In the case of Lookout, the incoming CAT cables went into the bottom of the lightning protection similar to your picture at Haystack.  Once the jackets of the CAT cables were compromised up above, the water rode down the jackets clear inside the building.  Ironically the lightning protection wasn't affected, as the excess cable looped inside and upward entry into the lightning protection served to stop/slow the path of the water.  It was mostly when the cables were unplugged and left to hang that the water started dripping out.  It could have been worse.  The hardline that broke free up above did a pretty serious number on the CAT cables, stretching them and allowing them to abrade on the angle iron / etc. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Rob 
> 
> From: Bart Kus <me at bartk.us> 
> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2023 8:38 PM
> To: Puget Sound Data Ring <psdr at hamwan.org>; Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com>
> Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Lookout maintenance update 
> 
> Water water everywhere!  New water drainage devices have been installed @ Haystack.  May be useful elsewhere.  Surprised to hear SnoDEM was affected.  Those cables are really well supported. 
> 
> --Bart 
> 
> On 10/28/2023 6:27 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote: 
> 
>> The maintenance at Lookout is complete. 
>> 
>> Problems found on inspection include: 
>> 
>> * PTP link to Triangle (only one operating) had an abrasion in the CAT5E jacket up next to the dish.  This link has been intermittent, causing the site to go up and down repeatedly, most notably during periods of rain.
>> * PTP link to SnoDEM was found to have significant damage to the CAT5E jacket toward the upper end where it runs from the main cableway out to the dish.
>> * Sector 2 is offline (more on this below)
>> 
>> The cause of the damage to both PTP link CAT cables was due to another tenant's antenna hardline had become detached from it's mountings and fell toward the inside of the tower, stretching both CAT cables and damaging them. 
>> 
>> New CAT cables were pulled for both Triangle and SnoDEM PTP dishes and the site is stable once again and fed from both sources. 
>> 
>> Sector 2 is still down, as we simply could not get to it on this trip.  S2 is substantially higher on the tower and after the first two antennas were corrected the call was made to stop there due to fatigue and waning daylight.  It is unlikely that S2 will be fixed before winter, but it should be able to be done as soon as an opening allows in the spring. 
>> 
>> While we didn't go up to examine the cable, it was leaking water through the jacket down at the tower base just like the Triangle and SnoDEM PTP dishes were, so it likely shares the same root cause.  
>> 
>> Apologies we weren't able to get S2 done, but at least it looks to be cabling instead of a hardware issue.  For now S2 has been unplugged at the lightning arrestor. 
>> 
>> Thanks to Kenny Richards, Scott Honaker, and Jim Irving for joining me to help make this all happen.   We were fortunate to luck into likely the last weather opening for the season. 
>> 
>> Cheers, 
>> 
>> Rob Salsgiver - NR3O 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> 
>> PSDR mailing list
>> 
>> PSDR at hamwan.org
>> 
>> https://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr

-------- Original message --------From: Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com>
Date: 10/28/23  9:02 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: 'Bart Kus' <me at bartk.us>,
'Puget Sound Data Ring' <psdr at hamwan.org> Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR]
Lookout maintenance update I definitely agree it has benefits as a
revised standard to future installs and/or retrofits.  In this case we
didn't have water reach and wick into the RJ45 terminations, so we were
lucky this time.  Might be something to put on the next visit list.
Thanks for sharing. Rob From: Bart Kus <me at bartk.us> Sent: Saturday,
October 28, 2023 8:55 PMTo: Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com>; 'Puget Sound
Data Ring' <psdr at hamwan.org>Subject: Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Lookout
maintenance update The key difference is the lack of RJ45 termination on
the cable coming down the tower.  If you don't give the water somewhere
to go, it'll go right into the RJ45 fingers and with PoE on there, it'll
corrode and short/open in no time.  The punchdown blocks let it drip
down without touching any copper.  One can also remove the jacket, and
shield, and plastic film from the cable to let it drip before an RJ45,
but I found that to be cumbersome to do, ugly looking and fragile.--Bart
On 10/28/2023 8:51 PM, Rob Salsgiver wrote:In the case of Lookout, the
incoming CAT cables went into the bottom of the lightning protection
similar to your picture at Haystack.  Once the jackets of the CAT cables
were compromised up above, the water rode down the jackets clear inside
the building.  Ironically the lightning protection wasn't affected, as
the excess cable looped inside and upward entry into the lightning
protection served to stop/slow the path of the water.  It was mostly
when the cables were unplugged and left to hang that the water started
dripping out.  It could have been worse.  The hardline that broke free
up above did a pretty serious number on the CAT cables, stretching them
and allowing them to abrade on the angle iron / etc. Cheers,Rob From:
Bart Kus <me at bartk.us> Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2023 8:38 PMTo: Puget
Sound Data Ring <psdr at hamwan.org>; Rob Salsgiver <rob at nr3o.com>Subject:
Re: [HamWAN PSDR] Lookout maintenance update Water water everywhere! 
New water drainage devices have been installed @ Haystack.  May be
useful elsewhere.  Surprised to hear SnoDEM was affected.  Those cables
are really well supported.--Bart On 10/28/2023 6:27 PM, Rob Salsgiver
wrote:The maintenance at Lookout is complete. Problems found on
inspection include:PTP link to Triangle (only one operating) had an
abrasion in the CAT5E jacket up next to the dish.  This link has been
intermittent, causing the site to go up and down repeatedly, most
notably during periods of rain.PTP link to SnoDEM was found to have
significant damage to the CAT5E jacket toward the upper end where it
runs from the main cableway out to the dish.Sector 2 is offline (more on
this below) The cause of the damage to both PTP link CAT cables was due
to another tenant's antenna hardline had become detached from it's
mountings and fell toward the inside of the tower, stretching both CAT
cables and damaging them. New CAT cables were pulled for both Triangle
and SnoDEM PTP dishes and the site is stable once again and fed from
both sources. Sector 2 is still down, as we simply could not get to it
on this trip.  S2 is substantially higher on the tower and after the
first two antennas were corrected the call was made to stop there due to
fatigue and waning daylight.  It is unlikely that S2 will be fixed
before winter, but it should be able to be done as soon as an opening
allows in the spring. While we didn't go up to examine the cable, it was
leaking water through the jacket down at the tower base just like the
Triangle and SnoDEM PTP dishes were, so it likely shares the same root
cause.   Apologies we weren't able to get S2 done, but at least it looks
to be cabling instead of a hardware issue.  For now S2 has been
unplugged at the lightning arrestor. Thanks to Kenny Richards, Scott
Honaker, and Jim Irving for joining me to help make this all happen.  
We were fortunate to luck into likely the last weather opening for the
season. Cheers,Rob Salsgiver -
NR3O_______________________________________________PSDR mailing
listPSDR at hamwan.orghttps://mail01.fmt.hamwan.net/mailman/listinfo/psdr
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